The Andzen Approach – Ep 06: Hayleigh & Justin from Convert Digital

Jason Anderson: [00:00:00] Hey guys, it’s Jason from Anzen here. Before we get to this month’s episode, just wanted to pop into your ear canals and remind you to please go to https://andzen.co/podcast. Make sure you register for your episodes along with the free Add to Cart flow that we’ve been offering. Anzen is now also offering a free audit.

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So once again, head over to anzen. co forward slash podcast, make sure you register. Pick your abandoned cart flow or your audit, and we’ll see you in the episode shortly. Thanks everyone. [00:01:00] Hello, and welcome to the latest episode of the Anzen approach. Today, I’m joined by two of our favorite people at Convert Digital.

I’ve got Justin, who is a business analyst at Convert and Hayley, who is a senior account manager at Convert. Welcome along guys. Thanks.

Justin Mendonca: And

Jason Anderson: of course, I’m joined by Brendan, our founder here

Brenden Rawson: at ANZEN. Of course. Of course. Good to see you all. Um, we’re in Brisbane again. Um, we share an office together.

Hayleigh Thompson: We do.

We sit back to back. Yeah.

Brenden Rawson: Um, fantastic to have you here. Um, As usual, we are having a little beer. It’s Friday afternoon. We’re drinking a Boulter Cerveza. What do you think?

Hayleigh Thompson: Tasty. Actually so good. I haven’t had one before.

Brenden Rawson: Um,

Justin Mendonca: could have a few more.

Brenden Rawson: I think we will. Absolutely. Um, speaking of having a couple of beers, um, in the sun, yes.

I heard that you guys just [00:02:00] got back from Bali to celebrate 10 years of Convert. Yes.

Hayleigh Thompson: Yeah.

Brenden Rawson: How was it?

Justin Mendonca: I, yeah, it was really good. Um, I would describe it in like two phases, maybe like

Hayleigh Thompson: what did the two phases phase one,

Justin Mendonca: uh, celebrating convert and everything. Uh, we’ve done, um, multiple days of fun and partying.

And then there’s like the phase two, which is like post, post Bali illness where, yeah. Um, yeah, it wiped out. Yeah. I would say almost half our company. I

Hayleigh Thompson: was thinking a little higher. Um, maybe, maybe a little higher than that. But, um, the, the first phase one was incredible. It was great. I think there was like 130 of us that converged on Bali.

Um, I feel like there was a pun there. Um, and, uh, yeah, it was amazing. I’m celebrating 10 years of convert and everything that we have achieved over the last 10 years and what we’re planning to achieve in the future. [00:03:00] Um, and then meeting. Colleagues that we’ve never actually met face to face before, which was incredible.

Yeah. Our Hanoi team, our Philippines team, we had people flying in from the UK. Um, it was insane. It was amazing. Um, the team did a fantastic job. Um, the directors, um, and the founders just did such a great job putting it. On for all of us. Um, but yeah, I don’t think we’ll be going back anytime soon.

Jason Anderson: I lost a lot of weight.

I had a few rumors about maybe like some IV bags needing to be delivered to hotel rooms.

Hayleigh Thompson: They are not rumored.

Brenden Rawson: Well deserved. Congratulations. What topics did we get into Jason?

Jason Anderson: Yeah, look, I think. You guys, uh, the first time we’ve had another agency on the pod with us, which is really exciting, obviously to have, um, some people who know what it’s like to be us. Um, [00:04:00] but also I think, you know, you just talked about 10 years in this space, the people that don’t know, um, you guys have been developers across a whole range of e commerce tools, always with an e commerce focus, but you know, by no stretches, it always been Shopify.

You guys have experience. Broadly in what it means to have a high converting e commerce website, which is amazing. Um, and I think that’s probably what I’m keen to get into straight off the bat, you know, 2025. I think last year site speed was a huge topic. Everyone was going on about it this year. Things like Shopify is one page checkout, you know, check out components.

What are you guys seeing looking into 2025 is like the key things that merchants need to be thinking about for their websites.

Hayleigh Thompson: Well, I think sight speed is always, always on the tip of everybody’s tongue. A lot of, um, other partners like SEO agencies as well, trying to get that site speed, just humming along always. It’s, websites are [00:05:00] living, breathing things, like it’s never a one and done. It constantly needs to evolve. It constantly needs to adapt.

Um, metrics are changing across different platforms all the time that we need to be across and we need to be aware of. Um, And there’s so many

Brenden Rawson: different apps too, right? Like all wanting a piece on the page, all loading some sort of JavaScript.

Hayleigh Thompson: Always. Yeah. Yeah. And, and. Like I said, they’re living and breathing things.

They need refinement. It’s like a, it’s like a car. You’ve got to service it. You’ve got to maintain it. You’ve got to take care of it. So site speed is one of those core things that you need to, you need to take care of. Um, but yeah, we’re, we’re seeing big, big shifts around that, but also with, um, Shopify’s new checkout, um, checkout components, um, All of those changes with the single page checkout that we’ve been rolling out over the last, um, 12 months, I, I think now, um, and now really starting to reap the benefits, um, merchants are really starting to see that needle move, um, since that new checkout has gone live.

Justin Mendonca: Yeah, awesome. Yeah. I’m not sure if [00:06:00] clients, but site speed Q and what we did with, um, the headless build. Um, it’s super quick and it’s, um, I’m not sure what I was going to say there, but it’s like, it’s, it’s, it’s something you don’t like notice until it’s there. And then you see how, how fast it could be.

Yeah. And then. When a site is not as fast, do you think it may, what does a second or two matter? And yeah, it does. And

Brenden Rawson: increasingly too, right? Like there’s a, there’s a purchaser consumer expectation that your site as fast as Instagram, it’s faster as tick tock. You know, like when there’s slight little milliseconds of lag, they notice that, right.

And then that’s like, okay, well maybe. I don’t know if it’s going to prevent a transaction or conversion, right? But surely it’s going to have some sort of little background, like maybe this side is a little bit clunky. It’s not as fast as something else. And [00:07:00] you know, any little thing to help get that conversion, get that sale.

Well,

Justin Mendonca: yeah. And like, I know it’s a, like for developers when they’re talking about, I guess a lot of clients like to do like a Google site speed test or, yeah. And I know a topic of conversation is always. Google sites feed test results versus what you’re actually experiencing. And I think that’s, um, Yeah, a fine line, uh, to like in terms of client interaction and being like, it says this number, but like when you’re actually experiencing it, because I don’t know, like, yeah, the technicalities behind it.

But, um, Yeah, it there’s the difference between what you’re actually experiencing versus what Google site speed said. So, yeah, I know for Q it says both, but like, yeah, yeah, I mean, that’s the

Jason Anderson: ideally it is both really well. That’s exactly it. But yeah, yeah. I mean, we talked about this just the other day, um, with [00:08:00] someone about, um, Speed is, is an interesting concept, but we were talking to a merchant, even about emails.

Right. And they were saying that they really loved using gifts in their emails and they’d been using them a lot. And when I say a lot, I mean like maybe like five or six gifts in every campaign that they send. That’s a lot. And I was like, you have to think about like someone opening this email on their phone while they’re on a train or bus.

Yeah. Um, Like it’s just gone.

Justin Mendonca: Yeah.

Jason Anderson: Right. And like, um, you don’t have any control, like email platforms, just like websites. You’re not saying like, Hey, load this image first. And then this image second, right. Um, you might get the last image that you want loading being the first one that loads. And then they go into a tunnel or something.

And like you said, it’s just one second, right? Like what does one second matter? But you have like kind of a weird experience on our phones. Like ask Tik Tok, how much one second matters for someone to like, swipe through to the next reel, right? Like it matters a lot. Um, so that speed is actually pretty crucial.

Hayleigh Thompson: Yeah. Um, I’ve, [00:09:00] we’ve even got some merchants that we’re working with at the moment that are using new platforms to gauge like issues and problems across their sites. So they’re using third party applications to track this stuff. And you’re exactly right. You know, you could be on the train. Waiting for a page to load and then all of a sudden you start rage clicking because you can’t get something to load and then that’s altering and skewing metrics across your entire site and you think there’s actually a problem but it could just be a slight tweak that you need to make to enhance that.

Um, so yeah, we are, we are actually working with some merchants at the moment that are doing that. Seeing some really interesting stats come out and trying to find new innovative ways to solve those issues.

Jason Anderson: Awesome. We touched a little bit on it just before, but the checkout. It’s something that we have seen some really great results working with merchants on their kind of abandoned checkout flows.

Sending them back into these one page checkouts has been really effective. We, a recent episode we do with a platform called Dataships, which is the Um, dynamically making changes in the checkout to help increase the amount of [00:10:00] people that opt in a checkout, which is really cool. But all these like features that are now available in what used to be a pretty sacred kind of Shopify feature, which was a checkout, right?

Yeah. I’d love to hear some things from you guys around that checkout feature and components. What can be achieved now?

Hayleigh Thompson: It’s, um, it’s actually crazy what you can do now in checkout. I used to be such a purist on the Shopify checkout cause I, I, it built so much. Trust and security for me, like knowing that anytime I saw that Shopify checkout, I was like, oh, okay, it’s legit.

I can like, I can safely buy from here now. I’m like, Oh, it’s different. But I love seeing what different merchants are doing all the time. Um, checkout components has been huge for merchants. We’ve seen so much uplift, um, particularly around. upsell, um, the power that that has now given merchants to open that checkout up to that level, um, they can just do so much more with it, which is really great to see.

And we’re seeing so many positive, um, results across all different industries that are utilizing [00:11:00] these new sorts of apps. Um, Convert’s really in a great position. We actually partner with, uh, Anvil apps, um, and They’re an Australian based app app developer who has so much insight into what our clients and what merchants are actually looking for, and they can actually develop components that suit their individual needs.

So that’s

Brenden Rawson: their custom for the merchant.

Hayleigh Thompson: Yeah, exactly. But because they’re, they’re still a new company, they’re still developing their roadmap. Um, a lot of those features that. One merchant might have a fantastic idea and they may work in high end fashion, but that may also be applicable for

Jason Anderson: a pet company.

And so

Hayleigh Thompson: it’s almost like this big brainstorming idea at the moment where people are just going, I’ve got this idea and I really want to do this. And then the devs are like, Oh, Envelope can actually do that. Like let’s go.

So we’re

Hayleigh Thompson: collaborating with them really closely. Um, and they’re developing some incredible new stuff.

That’s really just pushing the needle. I don’t, I think there was one merchant and like, They had like 20, 000 worth of upsells [00:12:00] and they were like, Oh, we don’t think it’s doing so well. But I looked at the stats and they were like, wait, where’d all that money come from? Like we didn’t even know that it was ticking away in the background.

So it’s, and especially where trade has been struggling of late, um, merchants are really trying to. Generate funds however they can and trying to increase that average order value. They’re really just trying to build that like return customer as well. And, and add a genuine upsell that’s genuinely helpful, not just throwing something in for the sake of it.

Um, that’s where somewhere someone like anvil apps can really help. Um, and yeah, it’s, it’s pretty seamless for the merchants to control and use it moving forward, which is great. Cause it, it hasn’t always been that easy. You’d always need a developer. Whereas now you don’t.

Justin Mendonca: Customer friendly in

Hayleigh Thompson: terms of

Justin Mendonca: ease of use to update it?

Hayleigh Thompson: Oh, I can use it. If I can use it. Anyone can that’s saying something.

Justin Mendonca: Once again, I didn’t want to say that. , you didn’t have to. I saw your face . Same. Um, no, [00:13:00] I was gonna say the same thing. Like the, the biggest thing from my point of view is the upsells in, uh, for the new checkout extensibility, but, um. It’s, uh, that’s all I have to say.

Checkout

Jason Anderson: Extens. That’s the official title for it is, right? Yeah, it is. I always just call it components. I see. Like, I feel like I see that mention around. But Extensibility is what it’s called Extensibility Checkout Components

Justin Mendonca: is the name of an app. It is an app. App. One of the official, like Shopify sponsored apps.

Yeah, it is. I think

Hayleigh Thompson: Shopify just acquired, um,

Justin Mendonca: right, there you go. Yeah, I can close that. I dunno,

Hayleigh Thompson: it it is checkout Extensibility is the new checkout. Yeah. Um, and it is still the high, I believe it’s still the highest converting checkout.

Justin Mendonca: Yeah, I mean, I know you mentioned it, but I, I, I definitely like I get to a shop if I check out, I still know that that even though it’s, yeah,

Hayleigh Thompson: we know, yeah, but like even working with someone like anvil as well, um, they’re partnering with so many other partners as well.

So like, With driving that up so you can actually, you can do it completely manually if you like, if you’re not at that scale where you can use someone [00:14:00] like a search spring or a Nosto or an Algolia,

um,

Hayleigh Thompson: but there’s now integrations. And I think that’s what is really putting Amble a step ahead of the rest is because not everyone has caught up to that.

So, um, having that. Relationship with our partners and with our merchants and then being able to go directly to the source to get those custom features built, um, is really just supporting merchants, which is good for everybody.

Jason Anderson: Yeah. Yeah. It’s like, you know, there’s always that interesting time, right?

Where like. Uh, something becomes available and there’s kind of like a gold rush of people being like, Oh my God, like we can do something with this now, but you’ll always find that the,

Brenden Rawson: but

Jason Anderson: the platforms that usually like that, uh, on top of the slaughter pile by the end of it, uh, the ones that were like actually innovating, right.

And they’re like, they’re not just thinking like, Oh, what’s a feature I can plug in here, but how can I also plug that into the five other apps that you use? And how can we make this, From a user experience perspective, a seamless journey rather than just plowing a bunch of features into this [00:15:00] new section.

Justin Mendonca: Yeah, I’m sure there’s like, it’s so new that I’m sure there’s things we haven’t thought of yet that are still to come for. Oh,

Hayleigh Thompson: yeah, I can’t wait to see like. It’s, it’s only the beginning and Shopify is evolving so rapidly there and they’re just rolling out so much new stuff. Um, yeah, I, I can’t wait to see what it’s going to look like in 12 months because I’m, I’m sure it will be completely different to where we’re at today.

Brenden Rawson: And for us, you know, we’re not a dev agency, you know, we don’t, we don’t build Shopify stores, but you know, as a Klaviyo elite partner, Um, we mentioned it before the, the checkout, um, being able to bring a customer back from an email into the checkout with X promo with X products that were left in there.

Um, it’s a big part of what we do now. Yeah, it

Jason Anderson: is. Yeah. And like we talk about, you know, being intelligently in the Urbana card email, we can have a little bit of code in there that says if they’re not at free shipping, like, Hey, you’re 30 away from free shipping. Like, Here’s a [00:16:00] bunch of things that you could add to your cart to get free shipping.

Go back and check out. Um, but being able to have the continuity of that experience straight into the checkout, right. And rather than sending them to a product page to add something to their cart, and then they have to click all the way through to checkout. Wouldn’t it be great if we could just send them into checkout and that product is still there for them to quick add to their cart and then one more click before they’re paid in a way.

Hayleigh Thompson: Such a good experience.

Justin Mendonca: Yeah,

Hayleigh Thompson: so good.

Justin Mendonca: Yeah. I’ve had, uh, clients who just adding drop off recall and like different stages and yeah. Even as a consumer, I, I fall for that all the time. Oh. I

Hayleigh Thompson: like, wait for it. Now as a consumer, like I, I know enough just to be like dangerous and go, I want a discount. Yeah. I’m not paying full price for anything ,

Brenden Rawson: but, but we know people like you, so.

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. We, we, they’re onto me. It’s our job to be head. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um. On that, I think it’s probably a good time for a word from our sponsor.

Jason Anderson: Absolutely.

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And we’re back. And with the magic of editing, our beers have filled up. So I’m going to plug our podcast landing page and zen. co forward slash podcast. Um, [00:18:00] please register your details there. You get notified about all the upcoming episodes. Um, you can like, and subscribe. Um, we also have a free add to cart giveaway.

Um, we’ve built an amazing strategy and amazing add to cart flow. Tick that box. Um, we will contact you. We’ll coin it into your account. You will make money. A hundred percent.

Jason Anderson: Yep. Infinite ROI. Cause it’s

Justin Mendonca: free. Am I ineligible because I’m on the podcast?

Jason Anderson: What’s next? Well, I’m really keen to hear from you guys on a topic that I think like we Um, as a customer journey agency, as a retention agency, as Bose, um, you know, we don’t often have that much say in the website and more often than not, we’re working with a merchant to say things from like pop ups to, um, how we capture data and all of that.

We’re kind of trying to fit into what the website strategy is, [00:19:00] and I’m interested to hear from your perspective, those websites that are really. I guess they break the mold from a UI UX perspective, maybe very heavily designed experiential websites versus, you know, you’re really conversion focused, follow the rules perfectly websites.

Do you guys have like a stance on where and when brands should be using these strategies?

Hayleigh Thompson: Um, I guess it depends.

Jason Anderson: It’s

Hayleigh Thompson: such a, it’s a cop out answer. Yeah, it is. Um, I’m, I’m

um,

Hayleigh Thompson: I’m a designer by trades. Yes. Me, so I’m quite biased. Me too. Yeah. Oh, we are actually, we’re both design back.

Brenden Rawson: I started as a graphic designer.

My, oh, look at that. Did you? My son’s a journalist. So[00:20:00]

a journalism degree. Yeah. Yeah.

Hayleigh Thompson: So I, I love, I love brand lead. Work it’s, it’s my bread and butter. It’s part of who I am. Um, it serves a purpose sometimes. Yeah. Um, it really, it’s such a cop out answer. It just depends on your audience. Really? It depends on your users. Like, are they savvy? Like if you’re going to break the mold and really change up an experience that’s unexpected and not intuitive, you need to know who your demographic is.

Like who, who are you? Is browsing your site, um, how are they going to be able to navigate? How are they going to be able to do the core functions or features that you want them to do? Like, do they know how to add to cart? Do they know how to find the information that they’re looking for? Are they lost?

Are they confused? Like you need to be

really

Hayleigh Thompson: sure, like what you’re doing and what you’re delivering. Like we don’t work with this person, but Zara, their website is incredibly experimental. Um, [00:21:00] It’s like editorial kind of vibes. It’s really like that digital, um, it’s that digital catwalk. It’s, it’s, um, it’s pushing the needle, but is it a good experience?

Jason Anderson: Yeah. Is it a conversion orientated experience?

Brenden Rawson: Isn’t it great to be, you know, in 2024, 2025 living where we can build these sites to whatever desire really like, and Not just full custom, like this is sitting on top of Shopify and you know, it might be headless, but you can build this like crazy imagination of the, the brand or the owner.

Um, or it can be like pretty traditionally standard product feeds, things

Hayleigh Thompson: like that. Yeah.

Brenden Rawson: Yeah.

Hayleigh Thompson: And, and I think like. Yeah, go nuts if, if you’ve got the market for it and if that’s what your brand is all about, but at the same time, there can be a nice balance where we work with some merchants where just the homepage is really like pushing the needle.

But then the, the core functionality around like, how can I browse a collection page? How can I browse a [00:22:00] product page? Is my checkout intuitive? Is my mini cart easy to access? Like that sort of stuff. You can, you can stick to the rule book and it will still convert really damn well, but make sure that your homepage is like really fun and exciting.

Like that’s where you’re, you’re capturing people. Um, so yeah, it is a cop out answer.

Jason Anderson: No, but I mean, you got to give the juice. I think a

Brenden Rawson: client can be like, I want to, I want to do this. I want to have this. I’m like these crazy videos that opens up and can we do all these things? And as agency, we’re like.

Yeah, you got money, right? But

Hayleigh Thompson: also like to our earlier point is how’s that going to impact your speed? How are you guys going to manage this? Have you got an internal team that can support this? Like, have you got the content to go with it? Keep it fresh, keep it innovative. Like.

Brenden Rawson: Yeah. What happens as soon as the season’s over?

Yeah. Yeah. How do you keep pushing the needle? We have to completely rebuild this. It’s not, it’s not [00:23:00] automated

Hayleigh Thompson: now. Is it a one and done? Like, are you just, are you breaking onto the scene? Like, are you a new brand with a new product or are you a fashion label that’s in a really saturated market and you’re trying to get cut through because you’re pivoting your, your target demographic?

Like what are you doing? Um, yeah, I guess it really just. I guess. It just depends. It just

Jason Anderson: depends. I mean, Justin, you’re throwing all the shade here.

Justin Mendonca: I actually feel the same way for the most part. Like it’s, it really is brand dependent, like I only because it, um, browsing it recently in client of ours, but like Stussy is like, it’s.

Hayleigh Thompson: Did you only just learn how to say that?

Justin Mendonca: It’s, it’s, it’s that fine line of being, um, it’s still like conventional in its flow, but like it’s different enough that I’ve found for their website, like even their landing page is just, yeah. Um, and then their collection pages has no info, which is the product image itself. [00:24:00] Yeah. And it’s like different, but not, um, so you’re still getting familiar.

Yeah, exactly. But it’s still very them

Brenden Rawson: as a brand. And do you, do you see trends in like certain industries being particular to certain design?

Justin Mendonca: Oh yeah. I mean, like, like, like what Misha, like what we did for Misha and Elka, I think are clean, like, I love the Misha website. That’d be actually, Misha went a bit bold with their, like, Oh, it’s stunning.

Logo right across the head. It follows the whole website. Um, but I mean, maybe it’s the design background, but, you know, those, um, Really clean oxy designs. I’m such a sucker for beautiful

Jason Anderson: use of negative space. Yeah. Yeah.

Hayleigh Thompson: Oh, I think it’s so maximalist as well, though. Like it’s just such big imagery. And I love like, um, like age, for example, I’m such a fan girl.

Um, they’ve recently redone their home. [00:25:00] Please sponsor me. They like their, they’ve changed kind of their editorial, like look how their products are being shot. And, and that’s now replicated through the site as well. And it’s just starting to look, it looks incredible, like what they’re doing for the brand and what they’re doing for their customers.

It’s, it’s exciting for me to work on that side as well. Um, you know, we work with so many other brands, like, you know, you look at Camilla and Mark and that’s always been, you Australia’s golden child of like every client that comes to convert. They’re like, Oh, we heard you did Camilla and Mark and it’s great.

We love it. Um, can we have that? And it’s like, well, no, you can’t have that. Um, but we can do something different that will suit you. Um, so there’s definitely trends. People look to other, other brands. But I think the beauty of working at Convert is we work with so many different industries and what may work for, I keep using pets as an example, because pets is such an

Jason Anderson: [00:26:00] interest.

It’s booming, all the post COVID children that everyone has. Guilty.

Hayleigh Thompson: I, I love the pet industry because, It’s so interesting. Like they’re doing so much new stuff and like what may actually be appropriate for a pet company could apply in some weird way to a high end fashion label. Um, and that’s exciting to me.

So I want to be able to take things from different. Industries and apply that to something that may be a little bit different instead of copying what someone else in your same field has 100%.

Brenden Rawson: And you know, I’m going to go there. We are two agencies. Um, some of the benefit of an agency, right, is that you haven’t, you don’t just work on the same brand day in, day out.

Right. And you sort of in this echo chamber of everybody says, do this. And everyone like says, yeah, that’s great. And you don’t really look outside too much, but as agency. Working on a ton of projects normally at the same time, you’ve normally, you know, 10 years and you know, where past [00:27:00] 10 years you have such a long history of working with different clients of different size across various different industries, you bring all that experience in when you have a new client and a little bit that worked here, a little bit that worked here across different industries, different size segments, maybe even different regions.

You bring that together. I think that’s the benefit of an agency. You

Hayleigh Thompson: get a super website.

Justin Mendonca: As long as you listen. And

Hayleigh Thompson: look, it’s, it’s great. Like, yeah, we have so much experience, but we work with companies and merchants of all different sizes. And that is the benefit of, of working with an agency, you know, like a small startup mom and dad.

Could reap the benefits of working like with someone enterprise. And you know, you don’t know who could be the next big enterprise company. Like Australia’s got so many stories of these like little battlers that have just like gone up through the ranks. And it’s like, I, I get excited by that idea. I’m like, I want to be able to help the little guy [00:28:00] get to where they’re going and just be like, I was a part of

Jason Anderson: that.

Hayleigh Thompson: That’s pretty cool to

Jason Anderson: me. Absolutely. Um, I think I’m keen for the last thing that we chat about. I’ve got, there’s one topic in particular that I think impacts us a lot. Um, so I’m keen to kind of get into, and we can all debate maybe our own kind of opinions on this. We were just absolutely shitting on spin to win a second ago.

Justin is a big fan. Yeah. Justin loves shopping

Hayleigh Thompson: on T Mobiles. Yeah.

Jason Anderson: Yeah. Um. Um, but we see, uh, we have probably a pretty even split, I would say in our merchants, some that are all about when a major sale or something is coming, they like to shut the website down maybe one or two days beforehand, create like a real sense of suspense and mystery, um, drive everyone towards joining the mailing list so that, you know, you’re first to kind of hear when the sale unlocks.

Um, and then we have other merchants, complete opposite strategy. [00:29:00] They want to get the sale up on the website early, maybe preview what’s coming preview, the new collection products that are going to launch, but they kind of, you can’t buy them yet, but you can see them. So people could maybe like put together a little wish list of the things that they’re going to want to buy.

Um, I think both strategies are interesting and have merits, but like, how do you guys feel on the website side? Can you do a Haley

Justin Mendonca: cop out of it?

Jason Anderson: No, I

Hayleigh Thompson: have some feelings. Show me the data. I want to know, like there’s a brand that I’m thinking of in particular. And every year they do this huge blackout sale where they lock the website for 12, maybe 24 hours.

And I want to know if it works. I don’t, I don’t have any clients of mine that are doing it for that period of time. Yeah. I feel like that’s such a ballsy move to be like, Oh, I’m going to shut my site down and not a single transaction can run through for 12, 24 hours. You’ve got to back yourself

and

Hayleigh Thompson: [00:30:00] know that you’re going to make that money back as soon as that sale launches.

So like, that’s a ballsy move in my opinion. And there are

Brenden Rawson: brands that have just rabid community. Oh yeah,

Hayleigh Thompson: absolutely. It depends on your audience. But then like I’ve got another client who, They only do it, um, for about two or three hours before their big sale and it works so well for them because you’re not, you’re not alienating a particular customer.

That’s like, I just want to pick up this one little thing, like I’ve run out and I need it for the weekend and I’m happy to pay an extra 20 bucks for express postage cause I just need it. I don’t want to wait until tomorrow when you unlock the website. Like that’s annoying for me. I just want to get in and get out.

Um, and. That converts so well for them and they, they just do it time and time and time again. So, and their, their customers now expect it and they get excited for it. It’s great for lead generation because you can just go, Hey, the site’s actually closed for the next few hours.

Add your

Hayleigh Thompson: wishlist. So there’s ways that you can capture sales.

And we’ve spoken

Brenden Rawson: about [00:31:00] like. Early access for loyalty

Jason Anderson: teams too. So that’s probably like, um, I guess from our perspective, we’re kind of open to the, the shutdown, the website thing. Like, I mean, selfishly, obviously we want the data, so we want people signing up. We especially want those customers who. Maybe are big fans of the brand, but they aren’t subscribed for marketing.

Like what a great way to be like, sorry, buddy, you gotta, you gotta be on that mailing list. Yeah, exactly. Um, but often what we do is working with merchants who have loyalty programs is we recommend kind of announcing the sale and maybe even previewing it, but also announcing that. Um, different VIP tiers are going to get different levels of early access to that sale.

And then you’re allowed, you’re able to build a bit of sale momentum leading up to the sale, right? Because people are thinking, actually, you know what, there’s that product that I want and it might even make it to sale my sellout. But if I buy it now and I get up into that next year, then I’ll get early access and I’ll be able to buy all this other stuff when the sale starts.

Um, so yeah, we found that [00:32:00] to be a really effective strategy.

Brenden Rawson: There’s also sort of industry, um, dependent. Two, right. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a sale. It can be a new like season.

Right. You can,

Brenden Rawson: you can put your, lock your site in anticipation for that brand new season. And you know, there’s only so much stock, so you’re building a wait list.

People want to get in there.

Justin Mendonca: I was telling Hayley earlier, sucker for an exclusive, exclusivity. Yeah.

Hayleigh Thompson: I love how bougie you actually are. It

Justin Mendonca: works. Like you were saying, whether it’s like, yeah, you get it for a tier or just, um, I was using the, uh, a Canadian brand earlier as a, um, reference, but Frank and Oak and, uh, I think it’s Montreal based.

It was like invite only. Yeah. And like, that’s how they started their brand, you know, even, and then it, they opened up from there, but like that, like, Everybody wanted it. It [00:33:00] works. You’ve got to

Brenden Rawson: have a brand and a product to support it. Yes. You know, if you’re flipping a discount on webs, maybe don’t

turn yourself off.

I love the idea around,

Hayleigh Thompson: um, building loyalty and repeat business. And, and, you know, Almost like you’re tempting people and you’re giving them a little hint to go on the side to be like Oh, this is what you could get, but you can’t,

Jason Anderson: but this is how

Hayleigh Thompson: you get there. And so you’re, you’re kind of coaxing them in that way.

And, and I look at Mecca always. I think everyone looks to Mecca as an example. Their loyalty program is insane. I think beauty

Jason Anderson: loop is like, Oh, it is a Mecca. And they’re

Hayleigh Thompson: like fanatical and I am one, I’ve drunk the Kool Aid I’m in the call. And like, if I. I check the points and I’m like, Oh, am I going to drop a tear or not?

I’m like, I better not. I’ve got to go buy something. Even if I don’t need it.

Jason Anderson: If

Hayleigh Thompson: my [00:34:00] partner listens to this. No, I remember my wife, I think I remember

Jason Anderson: like my wife wanted like a new straightener and she was like, Get it from Mecca cause then I’ll get into the next year and then I get for 12 months, I’m going to get the better box of free stuff every month.

This is the

Brenden Rawson: actual reality, right? Like you can talk about like having loyalty tears and having good retention and you know, um, shutting down your site. But the reality is like, Build rabid anticipation.

I was going to spend 50, but now I’m definitely spending like 200 easily and,

Hayleigh Thompson: and hiding my bank statement. And then

Brenden Rawson: you’re like, Oh, I’m first in by, by, by, by. Yeah. Yeah. You start making

Jason Anderson: that excuse. Oh, I’ll buy my, I’ll buy my partner a shirt as well. And then you’re like, Hey, I got you a present. I have

Hayleigh Thompson: clients that literally their Christmas Gifting season, they’re like, Oh, okay.

So my mom gets this perfume from Mecca. My, my boyfriend gets this clone from Mecca. I get this skincare and it’s just to build the point. And I’m like, [00:35:00] this is an excellent strategy.

Justin Mendonca: You think we, we would know better, but we’re too far in.

Hayleigh Thompson: And I’m like, Oh, okay. I’ve just got one loyalty program. That’s all I can handle for now.

Yeah.

Brenden Rawson: Um, It seems like a good spot to end it on team. Yeah. Thank you guys so much for coming in. Join a drink, having a good chat. Yeah. Good.

Jason Anderson: Yeah. Thanks again. Um, as Brendan said, please make sure you hop onto the landing page and then. co slash podcasts, register your interest. Um, let us know that you are keen to hear about more episodes.

Let us tell our sponsors that people are keen to hear about more episodes.

Brenden Rawson: Subscribe. You too, please tell your mom

Jason Anderson: all those things. Still some

Hayleigh Thompson: [00:36:00] exclusivity. so much guys.

Brenden Rawson: Howdy it’s Brendan here. Just jumping in again before you head off. Another reminder, jump on over to anzen. co forward slash podcast, put your details in. We’ll send you all the information, um, about the episodes where you can subscribe. You can watch all of the good stuff. Um, another reminder, free at Descartes, um, Klaviyo Flow fantastic built by Anzen and also that audit that Jason mentioned at the beginning.

Fantastic. Get yourself around it. Jump on and Zen. co forward slash podcast. See you on the next one.

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