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Jason Anderson (00:01)
gonna give it a second to start and I’ll like leave a pause and then I’ll get into it.

Hello and welcome to the latest episode of the ANZ Approach. Today I’m lucky to be joined by Carly Campbell, front the group CRM manager for ANZ at Esme. And I’ve got

Carlie Campbell (00:24)
Way.

Jason Anderson (00:26)
Benico Nicholas as well, the senior enterprise account executive at Clavio.

Great to have you guys here today. I’m really excited for this conversation. Carly, you’re actually one of the first merchants that we’ve ever had on the show. usually our episodes are really focused on the technology and kind of how merchants can use technology. But yeah, we haven’t had much of an opportunity to bring a merchant on board with us and talk through their experience when actually implementing some of the recommendations that we’ve had. So we’re really excited to have you on the call today.

I’d love it maybe if you could take a couple of minutes just to introduce yourself, and also tell us a little bit about Esme as well.

Carlie Campbell (01:10)
Sure. Well, thank you for allowing me to be one of the first.

Jason Anderson (01:13)
Yeah.

Carlie Campbell (01:15)
I yeah, as you said, my name’s Carly. I am Group CRM manager for Esme. I so largely handle all the retention of our customers, dabble in a bit of the acquisition side of things, but retention is my main focus. I have been with the company now for 10 years in various roles.

Jason Anderson (01:35)
Congratulations.

Carlie Campbell (01:37)
Thank you. Literally just

got over that mark, so long service sleep, here I come. but yeah,

Jason Anderson (01:43)
Yeah.

Carlie Campbell (01:45)
so I’ve been here a while, have seen the different stages we’ve gone through with Esme. So we focus predominantly on females between the ages of 25 to 45 looking to better their skin but without making it too hard. We’re not about overcomplicating anyone’s routine. Most people in that age bracket are mums on the go, so

We’re just trying to get back to basics, but get some really effective skincare that they can pop on and know that they feel their best and repair their skin. We focus predominantly on repairing the biome so that you can you’ve got the best foundations for looking your best, essentially.

Jason Anderson (02:27)
Yeah, perfect. Yeah.

Yeah. Don’t wanna have to do what I do and grow a beard to cover up all of those those acne scars. Yeah. Okay, so yeah, you need the skin products. Yeah.

Carlie Campbell (02:37)
Yeah. Well my husband can’t grow a beard, so I mean he has to have the skincare.

Banico Nicholas (02:34)
I think it’s a good one as well, yes.

Jason Anderson (02:45)
well, nice. Benico, I’d love to hear a little bit about your journey as well. what led you to Clavio?

Banico Nicholas (02:52)
Sure. Well, yeah, firstly, thanks again for having me on. So yeah, I’m, an eco. I’ve been with Clavio for the last year and a half. Prior to that, I was with, Amarsis for four years. And then prior to that, I was actually a decade in recruitment in the marketing, retail and Ecom space. so it was really one of my key contacts in recruitment that kind of helped me jump from the employment space into, into tech at that time.

Jason Anderson (03:16)
Nice.

Banico Nicholas (03:16)
You know, Amarsis was very much the kind of the, the, the bread and butter choice. heard it.

Jason Anderson (03:21)
Mm-hmm.

Banico Nicholas (03:21)
from all of my candidates. And then when the opportunity came up, I was like, great, this is a great opportunity to see where we’re at with an awesome vendor. So yeah, four years there and then, yeah, Claver for the last 18 months, which has been pretty awesome. So yeah, quite the journey.

Jason Anderson (03:36)
Yeah, perfect.

Yeah, and it’s an interesting spot with Amasis and you know, Kylie obviously Esme actually was a masters and a master’s client for a long time before moving to Clavio. so I think, you know, the we’ll probably come up in the conversation a little bit today. But yeah, as a as a platform, it’s an interesting choice, obviously, with the SAP acquisition and some of their focus on B2B. I think it’ll be great for us, you know, as we go through today to talk a little bit about what’s changed.

for you in that move. But also I guess Benico, as someone who has spent time at both platforms, you’re probably in a great position as well to talk through what difference you see on day-to-day, both I guess in terms of the tool, but also the type of s of people who use the tool. So maybe that’s a great place to start, you know, looking at direct-to-consumer brands today, what they’re looking for, what they’re asking for.

what are you seeing maybe today in terms of conversations you’re having at Clavio that you weren’t having, you know, four years ago at Amasis?

Banico Nicholas (04:41)
Yeah, great question. I think now that the space that we’re in, obviously AI is had to get mentioned somewhere, but why not jump into it straight

away? AI is obviously now kind of so available to everybody. it wasn’t really kind of there when I was, at a master’s, there was some kind of predictive AI in there. get me wrong, but like, think now kind of that really kind of generative AI that the kind of, LLMs that we’ve got in place as well at the moment are really kind of taking things to a new level. So I think at the time.

I was probably quite surprised now how customers were really focusing on like batch and blast approaches. because there

Jason Anderson (05:18)
Mm.

Banico Nicholas (05:18)
was a kind of bogged down in a lot of technology, kind of legacy tech stacks and stuff like that. was taking a lot of time to kind of build out a lot of journeys. So by that point, trying to get marketing out was a case of that just said the same thing to everybody. I don’t think there’s really that excuse now. I think it’s a lot easier to kind of get a lot of the things done to really.

Jason Anderson (05:36)
Mm.

Banico Nicholas (05:37)
get hyper-personalized and AI really helps to accelerate that, which I know Klaviyo has really adopted. And yeah, the platform when I joined 18 months ago is very different to the platform that it is now, which is awesome. It’s great to see so much change and innovation. So I think they’re kind of the key, one of the key trends I’ve seen.

Jason Anderson (05:54)
Yeah, for sure. and it’s interesting, I I guess for you, I mean, Amasis certainly used to be a really strong choice for those direct-to-consumer clients. So I imagine you’ve been working with merchants, particularly in the retail and e-commerce space, for quite a long time. but you know, elephant in the room, they’ve been acquired by SAP. There’s been a lot of changes over there. you know, what have how have some of those changes with SAP and affected things in terms of

the type of people who are working on a master today or even the direction of the product today.

Banico Nicholas (06:26)
Yeah, it’s an interesting question because ultimately, yeah, you’re right. masters was very much kind of that choice for B2C. That’s also what made a lot of sense for me to kind of work there because ultimately I used to focus a lot of that in recruitment when I was focusing on of

Jason Anderson (06:40)
Mm.

Banico Nicholas (06:41)
marketing. So it was a very, an easy shift. And I joined pretty much just after the SAP acquisition happened. So was kind of there for

Jason Anderson (06:48)
Yeah, okay.

Banico Nicholas (06:49)
those four years of…

that transition and look, don’t get me wrong. It’s obviously great. They went through that journey. They got acquired by SAP. It’s that it’s great team that worked there.

Jason Anderson (06:59)
Mm.

Banico Nicholas (06:59)
I think ultimately, yeah, it’s natural that the shift moved, you know, as much as they were a B2C platform. And there was that shift across having to then operate in the wider SAP ecosystem.

Jason Anderson (07:12)
Yeah.

Banico Nicholas (07:12)
Whereas Clavio ultimately is built for B2C, always has been built for B2C and is continuing to do that.

I think that was probably some of the transition there where naturally some of the investment went towards how can they optimize a lot of the SAP existing ecosystem and manage that

Jason Anderson (07:28)
Mm-hmm.

Banico Nicholas (07:29)
way. So that’s probably where I think a lot of the transition has come from. And, know, it’s understandable where, you know, get acquired by a behemoth like SAP, you have to make sure that you adapt into their ecosystem. And I think that’s kind of where there’s been maybe just a change of direction where

Jason Anderson (07:43)
Yeah.

Banico Nicholas (07:44)
there’s been advancements in other areas as opposed to mainly that focus and deep dive into B2C, which I think Clavio’s kind of.

mainly lead.

Jason Anderson (07:53)
I think that’s like it’s definitely what we’re seeing. When we, you know, we talk to merchants that have either previously been in our masters or are, you know, are looking at it, it’s there has been a real change in direction to support the B2B piece that SAP delivers really well. And, you know, it’s a fantastic stack to be on when you’re living in that environment. But as you said, you know, Clavio being purpose-built for D2C.

it’s become a lot more of a juxtaposition than it used to be, right? That you they didn’t used to be such different tools. And so it’s interesting as the landscape’s kind of changing. And Kali, I guess, I mean, you guys have literally made that transition. So I mean, what was it like for you guys?

Carlie Campbell (08:34)
Yeah, I mean, they both have their positives at the end of the day.

Jason Anderson (08:37)
Mm.

Carlie Campbell (08:38)
So you’ve got yeah, two sides of the coin, but it it was just like for me, just like my eyes were opening for the first time. I mean, at

Jason Anderson (08:49)
Ha ha ha.

Carlie Campbell (08:49)
the end of the day I was fairly new, well, I was only 12 months in concentrating on the email marketing side of things for the business.

So I just found it just so much easier to streamlined everything.

Jason Anderson (09:04)
Mm.

Carlie Campbell (09:04)
I I wouldn’t even have dared to touch the integration side of things in Amarsis, but I I dabble, I will say, in Clavio

Jason Anderson (09:10)
Yeah. Okay, lovely.

Carlie Campbell (09:13)
and I actually understand the platform. So I mean, yeah, the visibility for us as far as just being able to know exactly what’s going on in the account and what’s coming and going is amazing.

Jason Anderson (09:26)
Yeah, absolutely.

Banico Nicholas (09:27)
Like an idea that’s,

really interesting. said, Carly around the, uh, the eyes opening, think my first week at Clayvio, cause naturally you work at a master’s, you drink the cool age, obviously get taught a certain way. And it’s, it’s fair. You’re kind of in a, in a bubble and obviously you’re

Jason Anderson (09:39)
Mm.

Banico Nicholas (09:39)
under the thing. was, you know, I think one of the things that I was obviously taught at master’s was like Clayvio’s only email and SMS and a master can do all of this stuff. And, know, obviously it can do a lot of things, but then naturally when now that in the walls of Clayvio, you can kind of really understand how deep and how extensive the platform is.

I think my first week, we had like an annual kickoff and then I went there and I hadn’t had any context on the Klaviyo platform. And I think there was like a high level demo and there was like a AI segment builder. And I was

Jason Anderson (10:06)
Mm.

Banico Nicholas (10:06)
like, wow. Okay. Right. Cause I was, it’s hard to understand why, like a lot of customers make that from what was previously like that platform, like a master onto something like a Klaviyo when I didn’t fully understand the context, but then seeing all of like the, the eye opening world to your point around like, yeah, segment builders, AI, like all.

Carlie Campbell (10:24)
Yeah.

Banico Nicholas (10:25)
the only rate of stuff that the Clavio is investing in. was like, right. Okay. I can kind of see, I can kind of see it now. Okay. So yeah, interesting.

Carlie Campbell (10:28)
Yeah. Yeah. And I

hate change. I’m one of those people who I’m like, I’ll stick with it because that’s what I know. But

Jason Anderson (10:34)
Yeah.

Carlie Campbell (10:36)
like the minute like it literally took I think a day, like segment building. I was it’s the opposite in Clavio, like at some of the the naming conventions and I’m like, How am I gonna do this? And like after a day I’m like, that makes so much more sense. Like I get it, but then if you’re just on your way.

Jason Anderson (10:51)
Yeah. Yeah. And look, I mean, that’s the agency experience too, right? That we have. So you know, we find that we can be a lot more efficient with our projects on Clavio for the same reason because it really is that easy to implement. and it it shows up at all those different stages. As you said, Carly, like it’s not just for the agency, but then the marketing managers are more enabled and then the team is more enabled and suddenly those projects that felt like

a three week or a six week sprint away could be done by Friday, you know, and you know, you’ve just got all these opportunities at your fingertips all of a sudden. I love the the comment there about the integrations, but also I suppose, you know, not not wanting the change, maybe like take us back, I guess, to the Esme setup. And it’s probably a good opportunity as well. Even just like tell us a little bit more about

technically the brand. you know, I’ve had the good fortune with to work with you guys on projects before. So I have a good idea. And in my experience, certainly in the the skincare and makeup space, but even broadly, as a merchant using Shopify and the tech available, you guys have a really advanced way of approaching, you know, things like bundling, for example, the way that you build the catalog, the

Carlie Campbell (12:08)
Yeah, for sure.

Jason Anderson (12:09)
attention that you pay to average order value and how to kind of improve that. So I love if you could

You know, tell us a little bit more about how you guys are approaching e commerce.

Carlie Campbell (12:19)
Sure. so I mean I will call it when you mentioned like AOV, etc., like we we call it like the Bermuda Triangle. We have to hit

Jason Anderson (12:27)
Mm-hmm.

Carlie Campbell (12:28)
AOV, you have to make sure you’ve got great still got great margins and then at the same time you’re getting the orders in. So the number of orders. So it all stacks up and that it all everything is easier when those three things align. You can rarely have all three things align at once, but that is what we aim for.

Jason Anderson (12:46)
Mm.

Carlie Campbell (12:47)
So

bundling is huge for us because that does ensure like the AOVs up, but it also makes it really easy for the customer. That is one of our main goals is making sure it’s easy and streamlined for the customer. So if they need a new skin routine, they can just go to the bundle section and they can find that there’s a cleanser, a treatment, and a moisturizer, say.

Jason Anderson (13:07)
Mm-hmm.

Carlie Campbell (13:07)
And that that that’s the one product they have to add to card essentially. and on that bundling side of things, because they’re all customizable, that made that

really difficult for us, with Amasis. We were promised.

Jason Anderson (13:20)
Yeah, I imagine there’s a bunch of merchants on

all sorts of different types of verticals thinking, God, that sounds like a nightmare to do.

Carlie Campbell (13:26)
Yeah. It it’s

like literally I think there’s a thousands, if not tens of thousands, way of different combinations per bundle because there’s so many different products that you can choose for each item. So with a Marcus, yeah, we were offered different solutions. I think we were on Magento at the time, so that

Jason Anderson (13:47)
Mm-hmm.

Carlie Campbell (13:49)
that’s another level of complications for us. We are now Shopify.

Jason Anderson (13:51)
Yeah.

Carlie Campbell (13:52)
We’ve moved across since then, but

Yeah, where they had they did have a few different solutions for us, but they just never hit the mark when it came to bundles. It’s you know, it got almost there, but it was never quite right when it came to communicating to the customer what they’d bought and reminding them, you know, what their last order was, what goes with those those products, all of that, which we all know in marketing it’s the be all and end all. Like you want to make sure you’re either cross cross-selling or upselling.

at all times, and just delivering a really great customer experience. So that was our main goal.

Jason Anderson (14:31)
Hundred percent. Mm-hmm.

Carlie Campbell (14:33)
our head of e com at the time brought Clavio to us or to me and the marketing manager at the time and both of them were like yes definitely let’s do this and I was like

wait wait guys like I’m doing the integration like the whole migration the whole thing like

Jason Anderson (14:51)
Yeah.

Carlie Campbell (14:52)
that that’s a lot of change for me and I’m like, yeah,

Jason Anderson (14:54)
Yeah.

Carlie Campbell (14:55)
but it’s gonna be good. It’s definitely gonna be good. I’m like, okay, who’s doing it? Like you. And so

Jason Anderson (14:59)
Yeah.

Carlie Campbell (15:01)
little old me did it all by myself.

Jason Anderson (15:03)
Yeah.

Carlie Campbell (15:04)
I I guess warming up customers in a whole new platform is daunting as well. But

Jason Anderson (15:09)
Mm-hmm.

Carlie Campbell (15:10)
it was really so easy, I believe, at the time, I think I was competing in an event and everything and I was like

Jason Anderson (15:16)
Yeah, I can.

Carlie Campbell (15:16)
able to like log in quickly, like make sure we’ve got a segment to warm up.

and log back out and get back to my day. Like I wasn’t even concentrating on it for full time for that whole migration period. So it was really quite a straightforward experience for me.

Jason Anderson (15:30)
Yeah, look, I mean that’s probably a

a huge kind of voter confidence for Clavio, right? I mean, migration and warming are probably the the two scariest and most challenging things for any business, but particularly an enterprise business where you’re dealing with, you know, data in the hundreds of thousands of unique profiles and for Esme as well, you know, a brand that’s been around for a long time. That’s years and years worth of data that you need cleanly migrated and to be able to feel the confidence of, yeah, you know, competing in an event and

you know, being able to jump in and just see and make sure like actually this is going pretty smoothly. yeah, that’s a big vote of confidence for Clavia.

Carlie Campbell (16:11)
Yeah, that’s really good.

Jason Anderson (16:13)
Which I mean, at that point were you were you on Shopify already after you decided to make that transition to Clave? So you were Magento? Yeah, okay.

Carlie Campbell (16:18)
No, we were still Magento then. Yeah. So

we didn’t switch to Magent to Shopify until I’d wanna say at least twelve months later, it was.

Jason Anderson (16:28)
Yeah, well.

Carlie Campbell (16:29)
and then obviously it got better from and like and I would have to think it would be better even so now because you’ve got the pop ups you can you can pop up

Jason Anderson (16:36)
Mm.

Carlie Campbell (16:36)
on site, you know, sign up forms in general, and you can warm those customers up immediately. So

when I did the migration that wasn’t possible. So

Jason Anderson (16:46)
Yeah.

Carlie Campbell (16:47)
It just gets better and better, I think.

Jason Anderson (16:49)
Yeah, which I mean there’s two things in that. I I guess. No, it’s the rate at which Clavio’s releasing features. I think I feel like I remember the stat from K Boss last year. Was it something like three hundred or four hundred new features released in twelve months from Clavio, which is unbelievable. Vanika, I I think that number’s right.

Banico Nicholas (17:06)
It’s, I think it’s closer to 500, which as a, yeah, in this, this house, see McCleve, you know, is like sometimes hard to keep up with, at the same time,

Jason Anderson (17:14)
Yeah.

Banico Nicholas (17:15)
it’s it’s more exciting. Right. think that I can’t tell you how many times I’ve sat on demos and then I’m with our solutions team on there and it’s like, Oh, that’s new. So like you kind of

Jason Anderson (17:23)
Yeah.

Banico Nicholas (17:24)
halfway through something’s like, Oh, that’s that, that used to be there, but they’ve changed the UI on this or like, Oh, that’s a new product. It’s great. So yeah, keeps

Jason Anderson (17:29)
Mm.

Banico Nicholas (17:30)
it exciting. That’s for sure. So, um, yeah, I think it was closer to 500.

I think trending around

Jason Anderson (17:34)
Yeah.

Banico Nicholas (17:34)
that again this year so far, I believe. So yeah.

Jason Anderson (17:37)
Yeah, amazing. And I guess it’s an interesting one, Carly, when you talk about that, particularly that Shopify connection. I mean, it’s good to know that in terms of how Clavio works, that it works really well with Magento as well. And that you had a great experience being on Magento and moving to Clavio.

But you know, Shopify is an investor in Clavio too. So again, like even more reason, you’re getting such early access to great new features that are available both within Shopify, but then Clavio finding ways to look at what Shopify is doing and say, Hey, we can empower that, we can improve that. Like Binico, I know if there’s any anything extra there that you can talk about in terms of that native integration and some of the improvements.

Banico Nicholas (18:15)
Yeah. So ultimately Shopify and Klaviyo are hand in glove. So I think, yeah, they do invest in us, which is, which is awesome. And I think ultimately when there’s any new features that they roll out, we’re one of the first to obviously get access to that and enable the connection that we can make sure that it’s, you know, kind of flows through into our world as well. But there’s obviously, I think there’s up to 400 integrations with a lot of other text stacks as well that are like prebuilt. So I think the beauty of it is, that

The real kind of value of Klaviyo is that it removes all of those data silos where I think before there used to be a lot of, okay, we can’t connect to that or we have to connect that via an API, but then that can be quite difficult to do. Klaviyo has APIs as well that we can connect into, but I think they do a lot of the legwork and have those pre-bought connectors with, you know, those kind of 400 plus kind of other partners that really makes it a lot easier for someone to, I guess, onboard quickly and get that value straight away rather than having to spend a lot of time in.

a lot of dev work, which I think was where a lot of the, the time kind of gets taken up in kind of like legacy implementation and stuff like that. So, but yeah, Shopify is the main one. there’s also a lot of custom integrations that we do as well. So I think, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s really broad. I think I haven’t seen one in my time at Klaviyo implementation where there’s always been like any kind of red flag or there’s not, there’s there’s a no, that we can’t do that. There’s always a way that there’s, that can be found.

our team pretty awesome in terms of being able to figure that out like as a, as a team of STEM, which I think is, is, is, is pretty cool. So yeah, more than one way to kind of get it all connected, which, which I think is pretty cool.

Jason Anderson (19:56)
Nice. And I mean, Carly, you mentioned that is maybe a good opportunity. Like you talked about, you know, dabbling in some of those that integration work yourself. As someone who’s not technical but on the marketing side, you know, is that something that you’re finding using Shopify when it comes to kind of finding an app in the marketplace that it you can just connect it to Clavier and away you go?

Carlie Campbell (20:14)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. It’s so so straightforward like that.

Jason Anderson (20:18)
Yeah. ’cause yeah, and I definitely know that that’s one of the things that we talk about with merchants when people are looking at Clavio. One of the big benefits is that particularly if you’re on Shopify,

If someone builds an app for Shopify, whether it’s, you know, a checkout extension or some sort of on-site personalization or, you know, they build it to work on Shopify. But normally what we hear is the first thing they integrate with is Clavio. Cause as you said, Benica, like they’re so hand in glove. Like there’s always everything from help desk support or yeah, like I said, checkout extensions or whatever, there’s always a reason where the merchants thinking, like it’s great that I can do that on site, but how can I get that into my emails or how can I personalize the SMS and journeys?

and and things that people are doing with the data that you’re gathering. And I just find Clavio’s always there.

Banico Nicholas (21:06)
That’s a really interesting point, actually. think one thing that I’ve seen at Klaviyo quite commonly is before it always used to be, all right, there’s a way that we go through transformations. You always look at the commerce stack first, then you look at the CRM, then you look at other stuff kind of after that. There’s been lot of conversations and customers that we’ve won that have actually onboarded Klaviyo before they’ve gone through a commerce migration because of how

Jason Anderson (21:29)
Mm.

Banico Nicholas (21:30)
easy it is to integrate. I think based on some of the…

legacy stacks that they’ve got and the time it takes to actually kind of campaigns or get value out of it. And the time that they can save there’s the argument. Well, actually if we on board with Clavio sooner, then we can realize that value now. And then actually when we do

migrate to a commerce stack in six, 12 months time, then we know that integration isn’t going to be as complicated as it has been before. So we’re actually going to see more value by doing it sooner. So that’s actually

Jason Anderson (21:55)
Hm.

Banico Nicholas (21:56)
been eye opening really, in terms of the number of customers that we’re having those kinds of conversations with.

So that we’re not then having to bolt onto, know, kind of, yes, we can bolt onto a transformation project if it’s all, if it’s all encompassing with like, the typical commerce stack CRM and whatever, whatever, and the usual flow. But a lot of time customers are coming to us first to kind of get the value within the customer base and drive revenue through the power of the platform earlier with a view to change commerce stacks later, which I think is, an interesting insight in the market at the moment.

Jason Anderson (22:26)
Yeah, I in Kali, it sounds like that’s exactly the situation you guys had at Esme, right?

Carlie Campbell (22:30)
Yeah. Yeah. And we had look, at the time we had a really great e com manager and he like he zipped through it in no time at all and he’s

Jason Anderson (22:39)
Mm-hmm.

Carlie Campbell (22:39)
still like he could bring a new a new platform to us every other week and it would just integrate straight with Clavio. Like we’ve got, you know, gorgeous straightaway plugged straight in and then we’ve got visibility for all of our customer service girls. So

Those sorts of things can be very daunting, but it’s really

Jason Anderson (23:00)
Yeah.

Carlie Campbell (23:01)
straightforward. So even though I don’t have that person here anymore standing by my side holding my hand, I can still do it by myself.

Jason Anderson (23:04)
Yeah.

Carlie Campbell (23:10)
I don’t have to lean on lean on him and it’s yeah, it’s been a great option for us.

Jason Anderson (23:15)
Yeah, perfect.

And I mean, something that maybe we haven’t touched on too much, but you know, I think Esme is the leading brand, but ultimately there’s a few brands that you kind of run under the umbrella there, right? So I mean, how is that for you in like kind of managing Clavio, not just for one brand, but having multiple brands that you’re having to execute on and, you know, maintain everything?

Carlie Campbell (23:36)
Yes. Yeah, that’s fun. But

it’s really easy with Clavio because you once you’re the owner of several accounts or your made admin or whatnot across

Jason Anderson (23:47)
Mm-hmm.

Carlie Campbell (23:48)
several accounts, you can just switch between them. You don’t have to log in, log out, log in, log out. You have to

Jason Anderson (23:51)
Yeah, great.

Carlie Campbell (23:52)
you just it’s like click the two buttons and you’re back in the other account doing what you’ve got

Jason Anderson (23:56)
Yeah, nice.

Carlie Campbell (23:57)
to do, optimizing and then going back to Esme predominantly.

Jason Anderson (24:03)
Yeah.

Carlie Campbell (24:04)
but and then different

markets as well. Like we have the US a US account just so that we’re keeping those separate and as far as time zones and everything goes, it just makes it so much easier because you’ve got the each set of profiles in the different accounts and then you can

I think I cut out there, sorry. Yeah, you’ve got the

Jason Anderson (24:24)
Mm-hmm. That’s a good

Carlie Campbell (24:25)
time zone in different if different accounts, but you can then optimize all of the messaging for those customers in their time zone. So you’re hitting customers in the right place at the right time on the right channel. Exactly.

Jason Anderson (24:36)
Yeah, which is the whole goal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

and for you, I mean, at that enterprise level, I’d love to get a little bit more of a view of, I mean, like how are Clavio supporting you kind of day to day in terms of account management and and support? and you know, Bonico, like what does that actually look like for, you know, brands of this size? But, you know, Carly, tell us like how do you feel as the as the

Carlie Campbell (25:02)
my CSM knows how obsessed with her I am. la we don’t have to have too many over the top check-ins like you’re not having to schedule a meeting every five seconds. We they have a great support ticket system so you can rank your requests based on urgency and then they sort them really well for you and usually they get back to us so quickly. Like I don’t even have a s like I can’t even read the email as fast as they’ve gotten back to me. But

Our CSM is amazing when we do check ins like she’s making sure we’re keeping up to date with all of these new features because they are so many that sometimes even like I’m trying to figure out what’s best for the account and she’s already worked it out and told us exactly what we need to do. So the support is pretty outstanding.

Banico Nicholas (25:59)
Yeah, absolutely. So, bit of a shift in terms of my role at Klaviyo compared to before. So I guess where I was before within a master’s, I was purely looking after new business. And then there was like a customer success team that did a great job in terms of managing the customers. Where it’s different at Klaviyo is that my relationship continues with that customer.

So I guess I can obviously partner with a new organization, but then I’ll also become their like kind of like commercial contact going forward rather than that kind of being completely handed over. So, but then we’ve also got that dedicated customer success team that can purely look after the day to day in the platform. So they’re not really thinking about the commercial aspects. They can just really focus on how can we just get the best value for, for our customers. So we’ve got an awesome CSM team. We’ve got a dedicated onboarding team that do everything from like pollution architecture, deliverability.

and production, of those kind of like really cool things. There’s a technical team in the office as well. We’ve got an awesome partner network as well, which I think was quite refreshing to before in terms of the length and breadth of the partners that we work with. But I think in terms of scale, I mean, look, when I joined a year and a half ago, I think I was, it was around 120 people that we had in the Sydney office. I think we’re now around the…

160 maybe around there. we’re growing continuously in terms of ensuring that the right heads are in place to support. But yeah, it’s every, every kind of department that we operate at Klaviyo, we have that within like the Sydney office that caters into our like Australia market. And then we’ve got different hubs across the globe that look after the different regions. So that, that full global reach, but yeah, it seems pretty cool.

Carlie Campbell (28:12)
dabbled a little bit, definitely. it’s hard to not with front and center when you log in, but I haven’t gone too deep in it at the moment. So we’re in the midst of a t a small rebrand I’d like to say. So I’ve yeah, so kind of I’ve dabbled in it in what our existing tone of voice and look and feel is, but I want to yeah.

Wait till we’ve completed all that before I go too hard on that side of things. Because once it’s set, like it looks really amazing.

Banico Nicholas (28:52)
Yeah. So again, still fairly new. but ultimately I think where it’s helping customers is, really just to be that like assistant really, in platforms. So I think my experience with March has always been like, can spend a lot of time, like kind of like ideating and like trying to think about like where gaps are or like auditing stuff and like creating content and all that kind of jazz. But I think that’s what Composer is really there for. Like it can build, build campaigns. can audit flow segments. It can,

You know, really quite a lot of analysis as well. So it’s really there to like, be that value added, I guess, the general marketing team really, um, to, to, really support with a lot of those kind of like manual or kind of time consuming tasks, like, know, like the reporting or like the, content creation. I think that’s the real value of it. Um, so yeah, it’s awesome that they’ve been able to launch it, um, how they have, um, with all that, that it’s got. Yeah.

Carlie Campbell (31:16)
Yeah, so they’ve really streamlined that. They you can literally type in what you want to see in a segment and they build it for you. So often if you can’t remember what a property is from a in a customer’s profile or different actions they need to take or steps they need to take to get to a certain point, you can type it into those segments and it builds the segment out for you, which is really incredible. But if you don’t like the answer, you can also just click the drop down menu and start playing yourself. Like it’s so fast.

I couldn’t tell you how many metrics there are. I think we’re over our quota of metrics and you have to remember the exact like naming convention and yeah, that’s not my strong point.

Exactly. It is.

We haven’t yet. I only just got Clawed in the business. So f everyone around me was getting their what do you say their invitations? I’m like, where’s my invitation? I want the Claude account. so I’ve only just got one just yesterday, so I can connect now. So that would be great. But yeah, briefing, all of that. I we’re a lean team. Like we were a lean team when we started with Labour. Now we’re back to kind of being similar size again. We’re

it’s predominantly me not only briefing but executing all of the all of the messaging that goes out, not just emails but SMS pop ups, on site forms, the whole lot. So briefing is huge. So we’re using any form of AEI to help us assist us with briefing. But KVO’s great. Like it’s got the even at the moment, you know, it pops straight up and says what would you like to do? And you type it in and it gives all sorts of results. And

Y you might only pick one thing from the list that comes up, but that one thing still incredibly increases your productivity for the day.

I think the the flows were definite I mean they were called automations I think in Amasis and then flows in Clavio so you have to wrap a head around that. But also the automations we had in Amasis were very simple, straightforward, not not much to them. We I think we only had three or four running at the time. Now we have I’m gonna say we’re up to eighteen live flows at the moment. some are really in-depth, some are quite straightforward.

But everything connects together nicely. Again, going back to integrations, you’ve got whether we need a rev a review from someone or we’d like to hear from them, it all gets triggered in a flow and the right message goes to that customer. so I find it really straightforward. Like I don’t I’m not not gonna sit there and play around with it forever. I need it to I need it to work immediately, or I’m I’m thinking of something else and I’ve moved on.

Banico Nicholas (35:50)
Yeah. think ultimately there was that perception in market that like is, is Clavio at the level that, that a master’s used to be. think ultimately where Clavio is now is that it’s actually kind of exceeding those market expectations. think that’s kind of the, one of the key differences I noticed where I think because of that pivot of, let’s say a master’s necessarily moving outside of that kind of beta B2C space. I think that deep dive into that sector, think they’ve kind of.

been overtaken by the market in that sense now, I think, Klaviyo is kind of still putting the advancements into B2C because it’s providing that innovation at the rate of knots that the market is demanding. So I think they’re the key points that I think I’ve noticed just from my kind of perception within kind of the retail space and obviously what Klaviyo is offering. And I think the beauty is, that as much as Klaviyo has got all of these advancements, you don’t need to, I guess,

Adopt every single piece from, from day one. think that the beauty is, is that it’s, it’s scalable. we’re not, there’s no kind of like, like horrendous charges for like every single feature is like, it’s all kind of like really based on what exactly is needed for, for the customer and how can the platform kind of help you to kind of achieve that, which I think is quite, is quite refreshing rather than everything having like a line item cost to it. yeah, I think they’re kind of the main, main key points is that, yeah, the innovation is like.

keeping up with the market or exceeding it in terms of like giving access to giving customers access to those innovations and ensuring that yeah, there is that availability to scale when it’s needed.

Carlie Campbell (37:44)
That is one of the best features I find. Like before you send anything, you can see how much it’s gonna cost you in credits and and what you’re gonna have left for the rest of the month. We’ve just ticked over to a twelve month contract, so that’s a huge pool of credits across several accounts and that can be overwhelming, but as the owner of the account you can just go straight into the billing section and you can see at a glance every single

credit that every single account is using and how much we have left for the rest of the year. But it’s really good. And if you want to fine tune your segment, if you find like wow, that’s that’s a huge amount of credits, you can go back, fine tune your your segments and then come back to it. go.

It helps forecasting as well because you can see what each brand or each account has used in the last however many months and then you can forecast for the next financial year, like I know what level of account we’re going to need moving forward because I I have that historical knowledge.

I will admit I was on maternity leave when the actual change happened, so it was very convenient for me. but I must say the it was it was really straightforward for us. Like everything you can have again the historical knowledge, you can have the Magento data there and then connect the Shopify data straight into the whether it’s the segments, the flows, the profiles, everything.

you can overlap all of that so you’re not losing any of that data. W I’ve still got some segments that look back on Magento data just to see what that person was doing, even though it was four years ago like so it’s been really straightforward fast.

Mm-hmm.

Exactly. Yeah.

Yeah, I have actually just even last week, like when we were running the End of Financial Year sale and just while we’ve got so much traffic on the site, you wanna take advantage of that, right? If there’s missing data points. so I created a split test with within Clavio to do with birth dates and things like that. And re depending on what customer information we had, they received a different pop up to gain a little bit more

information, yeah. And it really worked well.

Yeah, off the top of my head. I mean, I think we had an uptake of about twenty five percent say, which is quite good for a pop up at that time when people just want to get get to the sale. Like I’m don’t I don’t need to give you my information, I just want to get to the sale, which is really good. So it just gives us more visibility on the ages of our customers and also we like to give them birthday offers, things like that just to increase their experience. Yeah.

Well, loyalty as well. Loyalty is great. Yeah. But you’re missing out on points and you can tell them that. Exactly.

No me

I think, yeah, if you’re using a piece of tech that you don’t think if you think it hit does not hit the mark, then it’s worth going out there and just experiencing something else. Whether you’re just signing up and having a bit of a play, it doesn’t have you don’t have to do a deep dive on anything, but I think as long as you’re no you know you’re experiencing something else and you can see what else is out there.

Like I’m I am guilty for putting my sh you know, guards on and I don’t wanna I I don’t wanna add any extra workload to myself, but if you just wanna go in and and have a play and see what else is out there, like it’s worth it because it could really open up so many opportunities. Not just for you but also your customers.

Banico Nicholas (44:30)
Yeah. I think ultimately from, if I’m a Marxist perspective, there’s always that fear of like, you know, we’re used to this platform or like we’ve always done something a certain way and like, is the grass really greener? I think just my experience, cause I deal predominantly with kind of like enterprise kind of like mid enterprise, large enterprise customers. The thing I’m noticing is that ultimately those organizations that were previously like really complicated and had to be really complicated are actually wanting to simplify.

And I don’t mean simplify by becoming unsophisticated. think there’s a way now that, that Clavio has been able to provide kind of the market, like sophistication without complexity. And I think that’s what the market’s waking up to. So I think my advice to those marketers would be that ultimately it’s just explore, like have that conversation and really just see what, what’s out there. No two platforms are the same. It’s all about kind of working out what is right for, for your business, your objectives and, and everything else, whether that’s going to be.

you know, Klaviyo or something else, but I think not opening your mind to what the market’s doing. Cause I think a lot of vendors are really kind of investing in, and especially Klaviyo investing in really challenging that status quo that you don’t have to kind of go down that really legacy tech stack to, to, to really get some great results. You can actually do a hell of a lot more, without all of the baggage that comes with it.

Carlie Campbell (47:57)
Thank you. Thanks for having us.

Banico Nicholas (47:58)
Thanks

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